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Topic: Gulf Stripers in Louisiana/Mississippi? |
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Kyle Moppert |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 11:53 |
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I just ran across a web site for the US fish and Wildlife Srevice's Gulf Coast Fisheries Coordination Office: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/gulfcoast/index.html
This office covers the "Southeast Region (Region 4): Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi for Gulfwide coordination of Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) interests in coastal fisheries issues."
This site also states:
"Striped bass were native to Gulf of Mexico rivers from the Suwannee River in Florida to at least the rivers draining into Lake Pontchartrain in eastern Louisiana and southwestern Mississippi. Striped bass populations began declining earlier this century, and by the mid-1960s had disappeared from all Gulf rivers except for the Apalachicola River system of Alabama, Florida and Georgia. The FWS and Gulf states began cooperative efforts to restore and maintain Gulf striped bass populations in the late 1960s, mainly through stocking of hatchery-raised fingerlings, and this effort continues today."
As I read the report above, it says that stripers are being stocked into the rivers in SE LA. If they are being stocked, where are they?
In recent memmory, have any fly fishers caught any of these anadromous fish? Are they surviving and making a comeback?
The site further states: "Dams that have been built on many southeastern rivers are thought to be a major reason for the decline of anadromous fish species in the Gulf of Mexico."
But with the exception of the Ross Barnett Reservior on the Pearl river, in Jackson, MS, the rivers of SE LA are not damed. So...?
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Pete Cooper Jr |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 14:47 |
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Kyle -
FYI, I served as the recreational fishing representative on a committee of the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission a few years back whose purpose was to update an obsolete Fisheries Management Plan on striped bass. It was a quite arduous job, and I learned much more about stripers than I ever wanted to know!
Just like there are probably no more bona fide "Louisiana" black bears, there are no more pure-strain Gulf striped bass, both being the result of introduced genes from other strains. In the case of the stripers, the early introduction of Atlantic-strain fish into the ACF (Apalachicola/Chattahoochee/Flint)system - the last bastian of this fish - led to the contamination. However, there are still very specific gulf-strain dna markers, and as far as I know, ALL fish now being stocked into Louisiana's coastal rivers are considered Gulf strain.
The problem that led to their demise is apparently the loss and degradation of adequate habitat. Striped bass quit feeding when the water temperature exceeds 28 degrees Centigrade or thereabouts, and if they are not in pretty good physical condition, they will starve before the temperature drops enough for them to resume feeding. As you might expect, there are few places left along the Louisiana coast where the summer temperatures do not exceed 28 degrees C.
So, until decent habitat is restored, the striper doesn't have much of a chance of long-term survival in Louisiana rivers anymore. The "Plan" we worked up presents solutions, but they will require a lot of money and effort to implement. And it is a well known fact to fisheries biologists that with the exception of locals fishing the ACF system, very few people really care about river-fishing for stripers. So it's a hard sell to ask for money to help a species that few folks care about.
And that, in a nut-shell, is the story of stripers in our coastal rivers. They are present in the Bogue Falaya, the Tchefuncte, the lower Bogue Chitto, and the Mississippi/Atchafalaya/Red systems, among others, and I have caught them to four or five pounds on flies near Fort Jackson in the lower Delta. And some tight-lipped locals do target them. But it is not a well-known fishery, and since the larger fish tend to suffer from temperature extremes more than the smaller ones, there aren't many big ones around.
Contact Steve VanderKooy with the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission or Doug Fruge' with the USF&WS in Ocean Springs, MS for more information.
Pete |
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Ron Begnaud |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 15:26 |
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There are a few folks who target Stripers in the Calcasieu River, primarily catching them in the area around, and just south of the Saltwater Barrier. The Sabine river holds a lot of striper and they are persued by quite a few anglers, primarily from Texas. They get some really nice ones on the Sabine River in the area around Orange. I've targeted and caught them in the Sabine River just below the Toledo Bend dam, but those were obviously spill overs from the reservoir and not Gulf fish.
Ron |
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Pete Cooper Jr |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 15:52 |
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Ron -
Those Sabine River fish are almost certainly Atlantic strain, since the established natural western limit of the Gulf strain was in the Lake Maurepas systems, and the Toledo Bend stockings have historically been with Atlantic fish. The "spillway", incidentally, is home to many large ones, since highly-oxygenated water can suffice for the temperature requirements of the fish for a short period.
Notably, it has been speculated that the Calcasieu River fish are escapees from the Sabine River - which initially escaped from Toledo Bend. I don't believe any recent stockings have been made in the Calcasieu, and I have not heard of any documented natural reproduction therein.
Catch 'em anyway, Scoop!
Pete |
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noahvale |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 16:02 |
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Years ago I caught some in False River and Old River. Anyone know if those were stocked fish? |
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Catchmeister |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 16:24 |
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Noahvale, the stripers stocked in False River were hybrids. We caught them in good numbers sometimes in late winter and early spring around the Lighthouse area. Lisa caught one just over 8 pounds which took half a day to land! 
The Old River stripers come from the Mississippi. The river is loaded with stripers! Each summer, I fish the bank downtown and on occasion hook up with something that spools my line. Fortunately I'm using commie tackle.
The lake in our neighborhood used to be overrun with small shad. An LDWF biologist suggested I get 150 hybrid striper fingerlings to stock in the lake. So I ran up to Natchitoches one day in my dad's truck and two large garbage cans. They filled the cans up with tiny fish, I came back to BR and dumped them in different parts of the lake. That was May. By October, we were catching these 8" fish all over. Two years later, kids fishing would occasionally hook something that would pull the rods from their hands! I landed a 5-pounder one day. Another year passed and the kid down the street landed one over 8 pounds. I never saw or heard of any more stripers in the lake after that.
I'm told they should've all died out years ago. Which makes me wonder... if the last stocking of hybrids in False River coincided with the stocking in our lake, then there should be no hybrids left in False River since they cannot reproduce. Or can they?  |
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Pete Cooper Jr |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 16:29 |
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Hey Catch -
Not in a lake, my friend.
Pete |
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noahvale |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 16:46 |
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Catch, I caught them in the middle by the lighthouse too. Lotta fun. Ask Charlotte if see remembers the striped fish she caught at Old River when she was about six.
I've fished your neighborhood pond for many years, but I never caught a striper there. There are still a lot of big bass in there though. I can see them with polarized glasses, but they are slow to bite. |
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The Trout Whisperer |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 18:57 |
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The Pascagoula River in SW Mississippi has some stripers, and there is a program in place to help re-establish the fishery. Interesting stuff. If you visit the river, you'll see signs asking anglers that catch stripers to call the researchers at Southern Miss. Here's the link to the MS Gulf Coast Research Lab:
http://www.usm.edu/gcrl/research/striped_bass.php
The Pascagoula is a vital and unique river that's only 2-3 hours from BR, depending on where you access it. The Pascagoula is actually the largest unimpeded river system in the lower 48-- no dams, and no levees. Great fishery, largely undeveloped north of the coast. I think the stripers may have a chance here.
http://www.mdwfp.com/museum/html/news/naturalNewsline.asp?vol=12
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Pete Cooper Jr |
Posted: 08-Jan-08 19:09 |
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Hey Trout.
FYI, that Pascagoula project has been going on for years. And if you can believe it, many, if not most, of the recovered stripers have been by catfishermen using limb-lines.
Larry is a very good friend of mine. Ask him.
Or believe what you want.
Pete |
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Ron Begnaud |
Posted: 09-Jan-08 11:14 |
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Pete,
The fish in the spillway below the Toledo Bend dam would have no problems with temperature. 28 centigrade is around 82 f. The water coming out of the spillway comes from the bottom of the reservoir and is around 52 degrees f and cools the river for quite a ways. It makes your feet numb wet wading, even in the middle of July.
Ron |
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Pete Cooper Jr |
Posted: 09-Jan-08 15:22 |
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52 Degrees! Well, there you go - there's the opportunity for a Louisiana coldwater fishery. And just think how happy those stripers would be to see a bunch of rainbeaux troutlings introduced into it! Talk about some instant high-protein striper-groceries!
Pete
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Catchmeister |
Posted: 09-Jan-08 18:11 |
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Pete, that's not a bad idea... 
I think the reason LDWF never looked at stocking trout below Toledo Bend was concern they would be feeding the stripers. But there are many tailwaters where stripers and trout coexist, one being Oklahoma's Illinois River. Granted, the stripers will eat some of the trout, but then again they've been known to eat anything... catfish, ducks, rats, snakes, empty beer cans. The bigger problem would be access. I don't think the section below the dam is open to the public. |
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The Trout Whisperer |
Posted: 10-Jan-08 02:47 |
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Turns out that stripers also eat french fries and video cameras, too. Check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3--fC4MGZQ
Maybe the camera was on a leash of some kind? |
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James |
Posted: 10-Jan-08 09:32 |
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If I am correct Ron may know more but the area below the dam is off limits. Now I think you cannot fish any closer than 500ft to the damn. Do know this has angered alot of people who traditionally come to the lake to fish for stripers.
Old River in Innis use to have stripers stack up along with schools of bass, and bar fish on the sand bars across the oxbow and to the left of Old River Landing. Don't know if they were hybrid or from the Mississippi River.
Years ago in college my room mate was from Wiggins, MS. Used his grandfathers real old beat up Dura Craft with twin 25 hp engines one a mercury and one a mariner. That boat may have leaked, but on 6 gallons gas we made some trips in this area. $20 got us gas for my Nissan truck, filled the 6 gal gas tank, paid launch fee, got ice free from the dorm ice machine, caught our live bait, and had $2 left for one 20oz natural light for each of us. We went fishing for stripers between Pearl River and Bayou Gauche in MS. Best fishing trips I ever had for $20.
He had some classes later on where he did some research at the SLU place in Manchac. He did study of the striped bass years ago for a professor but don't know if it was for SLU or Southern Miss.
[Edited by James on 10-Jan-08 09:50] |
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mike racca |
Posted: 10-Jan-08 17:54 |
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This a great thread. Keep it going.
Mike |
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Kyle Moppert |
Posted: 10-Jan-08 19:47 |
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While it's been about 13 years since i tried to fish below the Toledo Bend Dam, as i remember, there were two areas, one on LA and one on TX. The Texas side had the main channel of water, but limited access for a distance below the dam. This was reputted to be the area which held the vast majority of the stripers. You also needed a Texas license, but as we didn't have a boat with us and were only there for a couple of hours, we tried the LA side. The LA side was a series of rocky pools, without any flow at that time.
The locals told us that we might find bass and bream on the LA side, but that for stripers, unless there was water flowing out of the dam on the LA side in order to locate stripers, we needed to launch a boat on the Texas side and fish the river below the dam. They also said that we'ed better have both LA and TX licenses, as the border wasn't well marked and the game wardens (i.e. the TX game wardens) targeted LA anglers.
However, they also told us that as the stripers were constantly on the move it, it was a hit or miss deal... actually more miss than hit.
We fished the rocky pools... without any luck. |
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Ron Begnaud |
Posted: 11-Jan-08 08:55 |
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The first 500 feet below the dam, in both the generation channel and the spillway have always been off limits, and yes big fish hold near the dam on the generation (TX) side you can walk across the dam, look down and see their hulking figures. Immediately after 9-11 they closed shore access for a lot more of the area. I seem to recall hearing that they had started allowing folks to fish the area again, but can't find anything on it. I'll call the Sabine River Authority to find out.
The spillway (LA) side is pool and drop as Kyle mentioned, and it's very pretty with a colorful sandstone banks, and even some rapids. I've never seen it without flow. The first time I ever went up there to look for stripers, I had fished for a while with no luck when I saw a group of 3 or 4 boys around 10-12 years old walking away from an area of the river (La spillway side) dragging a stringer of striper so heavy they couldn't lift it. They pointed to the area they had caught the fish and told me they caught them on Zara spooks. I went to the area they fished and tried throwing poppers, Dahlburg divers, deceivers and more all with no luck. Then I tied on a spoon fly and caught 5 stripers in 5 cast ranging from 5 to 8 pounds. They pull good in that current. The fishing I was doing was wet wading and it was quite chilly. You have to avoid wading too deep or shrikage will occur.
The lowdown I've gotten on fishing the generator side is to fish it while they are generating, run a boat up to the edge of the off limits area and drift back beating the banks using a trolling motor to maintain control. They use a lot of lipped jerk baits like rapala's, so imitating that with fly shouldn't be hard.
Ron |
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fruged |
Posted: 31-Jan-08 17:19 |
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First of all, I apologize for taking a while to post this in response to Kyle’s original message, which he asked me to do. I’ve been trying to carve out a block of time sufficient to give you enough background for my answers to make sense and not just raise more questions (which they probably will anyway), and I think I’ve finally pulled myself out of the weeds far enough to take a shot at it. By the way I read Pete Cooper’s first posted rely, and he gave you an excellent capsule version; here’s the expanded one.
We know for sure that native striped bass existed in some Southeast Louisiana rivers (Amite, Tickfaw, Tangipahoa, Tchefuncte and Pearl/Bogue Chitto) because of reports by fish “experts of the day” of the species being found there in the late 1800s-early 1900s, well before striped bass stocking began. The earliest reference is a report by Dr Tarleton Bean, who was the first curator of fishes for the Smithsonian Institution. He reported on a collection of striped bass from the upper Tangipahoa River near Osyka, Mississippi in 1884. At least one specimen from that collection is in the US National Museum fish collection, so it can still be verified by experts today as actually being a striped bass (rather than, say, a white or yellow bass). The person who sent him the specimens also reported seeing fairly large schools of them, mostly in the 4-6 pound range. Other reports indicate there were striped bass in the area through at least the late-1950s, but they apparently all disappeared during the 1960s. A similar story exists for most of the other Gulf rivers within the species range, except for small remnant populations in the Mobile and Apalachicola River systems. The Mobile fish apparently also disappeared in the 1970s leaving only the Apalachicola population. In the 1970s biologists noticed that the striped bass in that river were different in some ways from the striped bass of the Atlantic coast. Genetic studies begun in the late 1980s confirmed this difference, thus giving rise to the term “Gulf race” to refer to these fish.
We aren’t sure exactly why they disappeared, but various habitat changes occurring in all of the Gulf rivers no doubt contributed to their demise. While dam construction is commonly-cited as a culprit, and that doubtless is true, Kyle is right in that they also disappeared from rivers where there are no dams, so there was also something else going on. We have only theories at this point. One thing that probably plays a major role is cool water. Striped bass are a cool-water species, as Pete pointed out, and they need to find water cooler than about 80°F in order to survive our Gulf coast summers. This is especially true of the adult fish of prime reproductive age. They actually prefer to stay in water of about 70°F if they can find it. One problem we have is that physical habitat changes in our watersheds probably reduced or eliminated many or most of these cool water refuges for the fish. In most rivers springs probably provided an important source of cool water. Many springs have been greatly reduced due to people either diverting them for other purposes, either directly or through water withdrawal from the aquifers. There have also been physical changes to the channels of most rivers, either directly for flood control or navigation or indirectly because of siltation from other human activities in the watersheds. These changes, along with changes in rainfall patterns over the last several decades may be hampering striped bass spawning and/or survival of eggs and larvae. Unregulated fishing may also have played a role prior to the 1960s. There may be other causes we’re not aware of. Chemical contaminants have also been cited, and in some areas may still be a problem.
In the late 1960s when it was realized that striped bass were disappearing, the Gulf states and federal government began a cooperative program to try to restore striped bass in many rivers, including the Tangipahoa, Tchefuncte and Pearl systems. This program continues today and has consisted primarily of artificially spawning striped bass, rearing to fingerling size in hatcheries and releasing them into the rivers. Stocking of reservoirs on some of these rivers and throughout much of the country to establish reservoir fisheries also began in the 1960s. Up until the last 10 years or so, much of the stocking that occurred utilized striped bass from Atlantic rivers. Although we are now trying to use only fish that we consider to be Gulf race to stock Gulf rivers, there have been some Atlantic fish stocked into all the rivers, including the Apalachicola. There have been a few efforts to restore cool water refuges in the Apalachicola River system, but these have met with limited success and require continual maintenance. Stocking has occurred in the three Louisiana rivers cited above, but not every year since the restoration program began. During the last four years there have been only 10,250 striped bass stocked into the Tchefuncte and 7,800 in the Tangipahoa. These were advanced, or what we call Phase II, fingerlings, generally six inches or larger. Stocking of fingerlings and/or fry has also been done in or just below Ross Barnett Reservoir on the Pearl River during the last few years, and some of these fish make their way downstream into Louisiana. However, we believe most of the fish stocked are probably not surviving beyond Age 3 or 4 due to poor habitat conditions, and as you can see we haven’t been able to stock very many in any given year, and they’re probably not reproducing to any great extent. That’s probably why you’re not running into them. Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries personnel say they receive occasional reports of them being caught, but I’m not aware specifically if any have been taken by fly fishers in those rivers. As Pete mentioned in his post, he’s caught them fly fishing in the lower Mississippi River down around Buras. Those fish are descendants of Atlantic fish stocked into reservoirs upstream in the Mississippi drainage, but there has been evidence of some reproduction occurring in the lower part of the river. We do not believe striped bass were native to the Mississippi.
Although we’ve learned a considerable amount about striped bass in Gulf rivers over the years, there’s still a lot we don’t know, such as where spawning areas are in most rivers and where potentially-restorable cool water refuges may be. The work required to fix the habitat problems would be very expensive, as Pete pointed out, and would also involve changing people’s use of our streams as well as the watersheds themselves. Our striped bass restoration program has never been considered a “major” effort, and we’ve never had enough funding to answer all the questions or do much besides continuing to put fish in the water.
One thing that should be added is that some biologists think the striped bass populations in Gulf rivers were probably never very large, and they were probably never major components of our fish communities, even prior to European colonization; keep in mind they are a cool-water species and in the Gulf rivers probably relicts from the time of the Ice Age. We will probably never know. However, we will continue to try to keep them alive in our rivers to the extent we are able, given the limitations of funding that we have to work with.
This is probably way more than you wanted to know about all this, but I wanted to give you as complete a picture as possible. If you want to know more I can send you a copy of the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Striped Bass Fishery Management Plan that Pete helped us update a couple of years ago (hard copy or CD). That would certainly give you more than you want to know. If interested, shoot me an email (doug_fruge@fws.gov). I’d also be happy to attend one of your fishing club’s meetings sometime to give a presentation and answer more questions about striped bass and our restoration efforts.
Doug Frugé
US Fish and Wildlife Service
Ocean Springs, MS
228-875-9387 |
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blindhog |
Posted: 06-Mar-08 17:45 |
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The Magnolia Fly Fishers in Jackson have taken Doug up on his gracious offer of a program and Larry Nicholson of USM's Gulf Coast Research Lab will be there to update us on post-Katrina striper restoration efforts. We have booked the Bass Pro conference room in Pearl MS, for May 9. The MDWFP will be there too. We love rock hounds and are ready and willing to help them in any way we can.
Glen |
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